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Why MKWC & WL should stay individual

Discussion in 'Suggestions & Feedback' started by Nolia., Mar 11, 2017.

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Should MKWC stay individual?

Poll closed Apr 19, 2017.
  1. oui

    39 vote(s)
    88.6%
  2. non

    5 vote(s)
    11.4%
  1. Nolia.

    Nolia. mach*

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    First of all, i couldn't think of a better title xd

    Second of all, sorry for my poor english, its not first & second language but i will try my best to be clear as possible

    I've really being against WC using the WL rules (and then i'm actually mainly talking about people who can't participate due their ban, the rules itself looks fine). I believe in 2015 MKWC it was different (or not, correct me if i'm wrong) but it brought more hype and publicity and also cuz of the fact it was streamed on EGTV. There are people who were used to play MKWC back but got banned for hacking or their unrespectful behaviour which isn't wrong, but why banning them from MKWC? And i'm mainly talking about the pple who got banned for another reason instead of hacking. Take Team Germany as example, 80% of Team Germany is banned from WL which means they are also banned from MKWC, but those players who are banned are clearly the best players from Germany and not did they get banned for hacking. They're not allowed to play WL which is already a punish and that's enough. Plus, MKWC is meant to take the BEST players from every country and fight for the number one place and so on which is hyped to see (atleast imo). But sticking with the WL rules just makes it less fun and will make MKWC die out slowly and slowly. As for players who got banned for hacking, u can just put them on conditionals and weither they did participate without doing conditionals, give it a -150.

    That's pretty much it, i really hope this will change.

    Have a good day!
     
    Aditya~, lina, Emperor and 7 others like this.
  2. Stunky

    Stunky Tom | Stunky Staff Member

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    For people who can't be too interested reading the full ruleset located here, here's a copy of the rule in question:

    One thing I will say prior to going in to this, is in the off-season a lot of the alting cases were planned to be getting reviewed, so there's a chance that the Germany example will not be affected too much.

    I personally would agree to change the rule specific for the bans to specify what kind of WL bans constitute being event banned, but in no way do I think that the ruleset for Mario Kart World Cup has to be completely different from Wiimmfi League, and there's a few reasons for this,some of which I'll highlight below (although I know there are many others that could be worth mentioning).

    1) The event, much like others, is a privilege.

    To be playing in the event is a privilege, not a right. This means that if people are considered to be a threat, whether it's for hacking or for other means, the staff are very clearly within their rights to want to ban players who they feel don't deserve the privilege, or may risk the enjoyment of others. Players must understand the hard work and care that goes in to planning events, running the website or things on it, etc. and therefore realise that we could very easily just not put things on if there are any issues.

    2) The site-ban issue for some players would still stand.
    The players who are banned for cheating should actually be site-banned for the majority of cases now, and so regardless as to whether WL rules are followed or not, you'd still have an issue with MKBoards bans, of which in no way should we be lenient on as it's very clear that to participate you cannot be banned from the site.

    3) The implications of writing an entirely separate ruleset if one was to be written at some point to try and make MKWC and WL more separate from one another.
    The ruleset for WL is actually (for most cases, not like much is being taken from the specific ruleset) quite easy to follow for referees or a group of people, and if we remember last year (I certainly do given I had to hand -666 in one match alone), the way that MKWC is ran is that the league staff aren't involved in decision making. The ruleset needs to be easy to follow, both for teams and for those making the decisions, and so it clearly wouldn't make much sense changing the whole ruleset on the grounds of one area. At the same time, the staff are only working for a month or two leading up to the cup, so I'm not sure people understand just how long it can take to write a whole ruleset, like for rule updates alone a few times within the league it's taken like 6 or 7 hour calls, along with the hours and hours it takes to try getting the ruleset as simple and easy to understand in terms of wording (obviously given I write essays I'm not the one to do the concise work :p) - and that's just for an update.

    In the case of changing the specific rule, yes, there are some cases where you could argue people haven't done enough to have their ability to play revoked, but on the whole it makes much more sense to stick to the WL ruleset and just make changes in the areas that get brought up (which happens anyway within staff calls, of which last year's MKWC saw as a regularly attempted feature).

    It's got to be realised that the rules are there for the safety of the competitive environment and the enjoyment it has. Of course there need to be changes or adaptations made to suit the ruleset to a 6v6 format, and to keep the interests of the community at the forefront without compromising the ability to run the event or the ability to reach the external environment (like, media we make reaching outside the community), but these are all changes we're likely to see.

    To conclude, there are a number of factors that one would argue mean we shouldn't be too lenient, or that the current ruleset is fine in most places, but obviously there are parts which can be changed and be used in a fairer context. What has to be understood is how prestigious this event is meant to be, as a once a year event where very few have represented their nation, and the fact that in the end, it's events like this that need to be consistent with the more main-staple events, heck maybe even with increased concern for security. Hopefully a lot of people currently in the situation will be able to have their issues resolved either by a reworking of the rules when staff are picked, or by WL reviewing the situation that got the players banned. All in all though, if people are viewed as a threat to the event, staff most certainly deserve the right to revoke people's privilege to play the events.
     
    Storm likes this.
  3. Nolia.

    Nolia. mach*

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    Once again, sorry if i will be unclear cuz kf my poor english

    1) I can understand your point there, it's very understandable but just keep in mind that we want best for the community and punishing them from WL is enough and obviously not all banned players are good enough to play the world cup anyway but i think from banning them to WL is already enough punishable because MKWC is meant to take the BEST players from countries and face other countries and the banned players who hacked can do condis anyway and i'm pretty they will learn their mistakes from banning them from WL since MKWC is once in a year anyway

    2) I literally forgot about the site-ban players lol, but that still doesn't change the fact MKWC is meant to get the best players from each country and so on

    3) While keep focussing on players who broke rules and behave bad, just keep in your mind why you are doing this hard work because you want the best for the whole community and let everyone have fun right? That's great indeed, but instead of punishing them, you should also listen what the community wants, otherwise you're doing all the hard work for nothing, not do i say that you don't at all but there are people with the same reason as i have and not do i know how many do which is why i made the poll


    Keep in mind that i never said the work of the staffs are poor (if you think that), i respect it but obviously there are things to improve like you mentioned and that's normal

    also, thank you for your response on this thread, always great to see pple give attention to this and take it serious
     
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  4. Twonk

    Twonk Do what you can't

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    Last year MKWC Staff tried challenging this for site banned players (not WL banned players). Staff told us they wouldn't allow this. The reason it wasn't allowed last year and likely wont be this year is because it's very clear and strict that site banned players can't play in MKB events/events hosted on MKB. Remember, I'm talking about site banned players, not WL banned players but this could be relevant because some WL banned players are also site banned.

    Edit:
    I have mixed feelings, I'm sort of split. All players should be able to play, we're trying to compete as nations with all of our best players. However, playing in the WC is a huge privellege and even if banned players could/will be able to play I hope teams still choose who they think has the best behavior and is skilled rather than someone who is really good but was banned for _____ reason. I don't really care, both sides have great arguments.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2017
    Nolia. likes this.
  5. Jeff

    Jeff I'm not cocky, I'm just confident

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    As far as I know everyone who was part of the Underground Kings case is most likely going to be unbanned by end of the season.

    I still don't understand why Cobra is banned, yes he does have access to item spy, but so does everyone else in the community since he released it in public and posted it in NRG chat on request back in the day. If Cobra is banned, the entire community should be banned. I don't see any problem of him playing especially since he played on conditionals for multiple seasons of IL and CSL.

    + more competition obviously
     
  6. rusoX

    rusoX

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    What I dislike is your reasoning to not allow players to play for other countries. I mean, this is not the World Cup of football where you have to be born in a country in order to play for it. You are taking things far too seriously.
    In my case, I have lived in UK for half a year so I should be allowed to play for them.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2017
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  7. luke

    luke vision of excellence

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    right but then everyone just says oh same lol ive lived in [insert here] for [time] so they get to play for whoever
     
  8. rusoX

    rusoX

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    Show the Visa/stamps in your passport... duh
     
  9. luke

    luke vision of excellence

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    thats dedication, guess well see what the orgs say
     
  10. Nolia.

    Nolia. mach*

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    I mean there obv are people that can fake it, but if u find a solution for that, i won't disagree with your opinion
     
  11. rusoX

    rusoX

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    Do you have any other better way to handle it instead of throwing shit?
    Its better than saying "You need to have their blood" In that case, wouldnt you need a DNA test?? get real
     
  12. rusoX

    rusoX

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    Excuse me, Can i help you? I wasnt talking to you
     
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  13. Munckeyz

    Munckeyz CRUMB BUM #1

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    in fairness there are a lot of footballers who represent a country without being born there or being connected to that country other than playing for a club there for several years

    also i had to rewrite this post 3 times because i put the word "h a v i n g" in it 3 times. help me

    edit: i dont really like people playing for any team they want just because their grandmas foot is from there, i just ask that you be consistent with who you allow to play for what team
     
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  14. Nolia.

    Nolia. mach*

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    now i feel shit 4real lmao, sorry
     
  15. rusoX

    rusoX

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    Well, countries also bought singers for Eurovision without them havin anything to do with that actual country
     
  16. luke

    luke vision of excellence

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    how am i throwing shit
     
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  17. Quinten

    Quinten

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    In Ruso's case, he has no team to play w/ as team Espanol doesn't exist sadly :(
    Perhaps get a team called: 'Rest of the world', where people from countries like this one can play in? or let ruso play with latin america as they speak the same language. Compared to Belgium, where there are 3 different languages, or Nordic, where there are 4 different ones, it should be a reason to play with them.
    HOWEVER, havin' lived in a country for half a year is not a reason to play with a team imo, atleast should be 2+ years.
     
  18. Nolia.

    Nolia. mach*

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    Knowing the language is worse than havin lived in a country for half year, in USA and maybe more countries, they teach Spanish and in EU they teach french, everyone can join the team then
     
  19. Quinten

    Quinten

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    ur missing my point
    we can link spain to latin america
    we can't link usa to france
    the language is another way to link spain to latin america and is just an argument for ruso to play with lta
     
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  20. Din

    Din

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    Last year, the cases we had to look at to make Team Eastern Europe a thing were just painstaking. People were literally just pushing to play in the WC because they didn't make it into their actual teams. A few more outside of those for EE followed the same nature.

    If I had to guess, it will be first-generation nationalities only (none of this "my parents are from x" basically) this year, should a WC happen at all.
     
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  21. Pryze

    Pryze Banned ;_;

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    Yeah, it will undoubtedly lead to too many complications as far as the requirements for second-generation nationalities are concerned, in case it gets implemented. I deem it too hard to set a number of years you must have lived in the respective country in order to be allowed to register for the national country and stuff. The staff would have to look at each case individually and it would cause trouble as people will complain about being unable to register for a team while another one is allowed to do so, etcetera. To keep the rules clean, I personally would stick to first-generation nationalities only as well. The chaos is not worth the handful of players that are concerned.
     
  22. Teeples

    Teeples http://i.imgur.com/wZdLxlV.jpg

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    A bunch of random teams being made then people have extremely minimal connections just to play or faking it like USA people playing for LTA because couldn't make team USA (this happened in 8, not saying it did in Wimmifi). It barely becomes a World cup anymore, and just people trying to play for teams they have no affiliation with.

    Expect that to happen regardless as without doing that, there will be 8 teams at best that can send 6 every match and some. Just loses the purpose in my eyes but I guess the more teams the more competition.
     
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  23. SiKH

    SiKH

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    If you're going to allow players to play in different countries, it should be based on their origin, was born there or has actually lived in that country for a few years. Some examples I'll show here:

    - Blaze playing for Team Italy was perfectly reasonable considering he has an Italian origin and he does have a Italian citizenship provided.

    - Myself playing for Team Asia since I do have an Indian origin and I am 100% indian.

    - Thunder (Even tho he got MKB banned again) creating Team Eastern Europe, he did have a Macedonian origin and he is 100% Macedonian.

    - Luso playing for Team United Kingdom since he was born in the U.K. and has lived there for some years and is now living in Spain. He could have an option for playing with Team Spain if he wanted too just like Soldier playing for Team Latin America since he is Spanish after all.

    Those are some examples I'll throw out there, I do agree that if players try to join other foreign countries by saying "my grandparents are from x" shouldn't be eligible to play and along with saying "I'm also 10% x" since that doesn't really count to be eligible to play for x National Team. As long as they prove they were born, lived or has the origin of their culture, then I don't see why not let them play for other countries in MKWC. I feel it's a great opportunity to give more people and chance and represent other cultures in the MKWC plus, the World Cup will grow more as it did last year with more National Teams participating (Well the ones that are legit and eligible).

    Also for MKB banned players, they should stay being unable to play since they are banned for their behaviours, you can't just get away with bad behaviours and still be able to play. Like in many national league sports, there would often be suspensions and possible bans for bad behaviours as well. So keep it as it is. For players who are banned from WL from MKW, well same thing here since majority of the people who are banned have been caught cheating in any sort of competitive play and you may as well own up to the consequences to cheating in a game. But hey, appeals are a thing for bans if they feel they learnt their lesson or have been unfairly banned.
     
  24. Zinthos

    Zinthos

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    Do you or Thunder have citizenships for those countries? I'm Indian, but I didn't ask to play for Team Asia because I reside in the United States, not India.

    If you have citizenship or proof of residency for the country, you should be able to prove it by giving the documents necessary, but in no other circumstances should a player can play for a team just because their nationality is 100% that specific country.
     
  25. SiKH

    SiKH

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    I don't find it a problem if someone's nationality is 100%, if it were someone who was like 50% or less then I can see the problem here. It worked out fine in the last 2 years in MKWC so I don't why won't it work this time either.

    Edit: I would also like to mention that if it's gonna be legit National Team, least have some players residing there so it doesn't look like a complete fraud.
     
    Rhodechill2 likes this.

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