Discussion in 'Division 1: Shock' started by SML, Jul 23, 2016.
-I approve TK64's conditionals
Pretty sure atleast 2 wz hacked
wZ will not received a penalty for the troll on uk Samuel.
Final score remains unchanged.
i don't understand the decision that was made.
"e.vii. Close encounters between players close to being overlapped and the first place player will not be counted as an overlap unless sufficient proof is presented to prove that an overlap occurred. If the player close to being overlapped provides evidence from their perspective that they did not get overlapped, no penalty will be given."
in this frame you can see that i was barely ahead of him, on my screen at least.
i don't know whether it looked the same on Jack's stream but if he can't provide footage of that incident, this screenshot should be enough proof, imo.
"e.i. Should a player be overlapped, they must, without affecting the other players, move out of the line of any players"
therefore: he didn't go out of his way without interfering with me. as you can see later in the video i got pushed to the outside of the spiral and therefore hit the wall after the pow. this might have affected my race at the end because i didnt get first since TK64 sniped me with triple greens at the very end of rBC. without getting pushed by Jack which caused me hitting the wall after pow i probably would have passed before TK64 had a chance of sniping me.
"e.i. Should a player be overlapped, they must, without affecting the other players, move out of the line of any players, item boxes, and/or ground items within 5 seconds of being overlapped. When this is performed, the player is not allowed to move (minor movement is fine if the player is stopped on a sloped surface, but this is not an excuse to drive near or around any item boxes), use any items, make contact with any item boxes, collide with any ground items, hit any ingame hazards that can cause items to be lost (i.e. thwomps, cars, etc), fall off of the track, and/or gain positions from which they were overlapped in for the remainder of the race."
if we go by the fact that Jack did in fact get overlapped by me it needs to be mentioned that Jack used numerous items (including shock) after being overlapped by me.
i am aware that it might have not looked like that on Jack's screen but without sufficient proof of his that shouldn't matter.
and i am positive that my video (screenshot in particular) is proof enough.
From what I see in that video he was bumped wide to where he had a horrible angle for the POW, so wouldn't that be affecting his race therefore a penalty? or are rules different now, because i remember being penalized for a wheelie bump
I don't think wZ should get away with that, unless Jack is able to show his POV. I know this sounds ridiculous but the staff made the rules.
dating back to the incident of leaf being deemed "overlapped" in RE vs wZ without clear proof, and the penalty remaining even after RE proved leaf was ahead of 1st place the entire time, there's no question in my mind that this deserves a penalty for consistency reasons. it's extremely clear (by the mirror view) that not only did samuel lap jack, but jack bumped him on top of that. seeing as wZ is benefitting from both sides of incidents of close similarity, i have no other conclusion but to believe the entirety of CSL staff is either in wZ, or has a wZ t-shirt in their closet. for the idontevenknowhowmanynowth time, you've got some 'splainin to do
To argue against the point you made about the overlap, all I was looking for was the troll, I didn't consider the overlap because it wasn't specified exactly.
The argument from the council was because those who voted for -0 believed that you (Samuel) drove into Jack after drafting him. This is a matter of opinions, which can't really be argued either way since the bump is subjective whether you intentionally drove into Jack or not.
As for the supposed overlap, we will take a look into it again. We missed out on that one, my apologizes, but maybe you should inform us of the potential overlap so we actually know what we're looking for.
first of all the video is titled "overlap" so i don't see how that one could've flown over your heads. secondly, it is indeed a troll because jack was in the normal racing line, preventing samuel from taking it. samuel clearly went for the overlap and thats why he drove into jack rather than going wide around him. not only did samuel drive into jack for a strategic reason, but he was forced to drive into him or go the slow way around due to jack stealing his line, which is trolling.
it is not the racer's responsibility to avoid the bagger, and the bagger disrupted the racer because of that.
The council will re-look into the case, we appreciate your opinions and we'll take them into consideration when deciding this.
@Force , if you can, please upload where it extends till the end of the race, thanks.
he didn't have a horrible angle from the pow, he failed to drift afterwards and hit a wall because of it. him driving into jack didn't affect this and it's ridiculous to attribute that fail to the "troll"
also feel obligated to point out that the only reason i hit samuel on the line was because he hit a banana on the last turn, which was easily avoidable and had nothing to do with this supposed troll/overlap
and finally i have to say that if this is for some reason accepted as a penalty, it certainly isn't one worthy of swinging a 54 point win, as there was only a 6 point swing "as a result of the troll" (still don't agree with that)
and @Tyler i don't see why there needs to be a consistency with a war from 2 seasons ago which was the first season that the no overlap ruleset even existed, not to mention it was a war that determined nothing in the end (the difference between 2nd/3rd, which with no playoffs, is meaningless) whereas this match potentially determines the difference between 1st and 2nd seed, and it's clear wZ deserves the win here when you look at it logically. even so, the situations here are different, in that case, jas clearly passed leaf and then leaf starred past him and starred shock out of our bagger when he shouldn't have been able to move. in this case, jack already had the shock and was not passed on his screen, and it only appears that he was from samuel's POV because it was on a turn and samuel was on a wide line. the case you're referencing was on a straightaway, therefore much more easily determinable.
to sum up my thoughts i don't think this is deserving of any penalty at all. i don't think it can be counted as a troll due to the fact that it was a mistake by samuel and not directly caused by jack, and i don't think the overlap screenshot is valid either as it only looks like samuel is ahead of jack due to the fact that it was on a turn and he was wide. however, if it is accepted as a penalty, it certainly should not swing the result of this match.
"determined nothing in the end" is going pretty far, considering many would value placing top 3 regardless of playoffs as an achievement, and wB wanted that 2nd place. while i do agree this incident didn't make a 54 point swing, enough rules were broken to amount to above that (assuming jack used multiple items after being lapped.) one can argue that -150 for failing to properly do conditionals is unfair, and most definitely doesn't make a 150 point swing in the war but it's the general punishment the staff agreed upon, and will be applied to any incident regarding it. why have rules if they shouldn't be followed? leaf was penalized for breaking the rules (he actually didn't but staff interpreted that he did) and jack is doing the same (arguably worse) but getting nothing for it, this is the problem.
Alright, so it appears to me I was the only person who was drunk. Either way, our decision remains unchanged. I have re-confirmed with the rest of my council members that we've deemed this as Jack NOT getting overlapped by Samuel. Therefore, any potential penalties (greens on the line etc.) have been nullified). Regards to the bump, the council's poll yesterday of it being -0 will stand.
Therefore, the final scores remain unchanged.
My apologizes for this mix-up, I'm not the brightest light bulb on the Christmas tree.
@TK64 An overlap is an overlap, no matter if it is on a straightaway,in a turn,on a boostpad, at GV respawn or on my brothers forehead
(thanks to jeff, racer and neon for testing it)
also, @TK64, saying that Jack is still in front of me on his screen is just an assumption without sufficient proof. who knows, maybe it was even more clear on his screen and he just kept on driving because he was hoping it didn't look like that on my screen...?
imo it is reasonable to count that as an overlap. idk how staff is thinking that my proof isnt sufficient only because "it didnt look like that on jack's screen". since when is an assumption more valuable than a video proof?
i understand that it can be questioned whether jack had something to do with the target pow or not, however CSL staff never ceases to surprise me with wrong decisions based on negative opinions on certain clans/players. that's the only way i can understand the decision that was made.
maybe because tk and killua both are in csl staff ??
why does jack goes his normal lines when he sees samuel behind him drafting lmao he took the risk bumping him and he clearly got overlapped
Samuel clearly takes over Jack on his screen and council doesn't even want to see his POV. How can such a blatant bias even exist...
im sorry what how is this not an overlap
both of us aren't allowed to vote, if i were allowed to vote i'd have voted -10 for the bump and that's it.
tk's post explained my thoughts on why but i'm pretty useless since i can't vote on wZ matters (so no bias here)
I got a trolling penalty for this a couple seasons back (not sure if the rules changed then). Could argue the racer moved into me and he didn't lose any speed, just changed his angle which is what happened here.
This can't change the end result of the division though so it doesn't really matter.
To be honest isn't this a clear view of Samuel overlapingJack?
And also Jack used a shock ( and shrooms/stars?!) after getting overlaped which allowed TK and maybe some Other wZ member to dodge the shock and over take our top spots which where at least a clear top 2
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